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July-August 2005 Newsletter
What’s the Word ! – An Interview
with Kim Wilson
Interviewed following a performance in Des Moines, IA at Blues on Grand, one of the nation’s premier Blues clubs on February 22, 2005. Joining Kim is guitarist Doug Deming, whose band, the Jeweltones, backed Wilson for the show. Deming and Wilson became friends after Wilson moved to the Detroit area to be closer to his wife’s family. They share a love of music and golf. Crossroads President Mark Thompson, did the interview in the band’s hotel lobby after their performance. Thanks to Doug for all of his help in arranging the interview with Kim Wilson. Mark T: What have you done to keep your name, your career at the top level while other musicians struggle?? Kim W: In the 1980’s, the Fabulous Thunderbirds would go to New York and every thirty minutes for 12 hours, we would have a different person interviewing us for three days straight. It’s kind of a build-up thing. You’re making people aware of you. You have to be on top of the food chain, too – or at least close. You just can’t just have good intentions. Muddy Waters said this, B.B. King said this, Buddy Guy said this – you have to make people aware of what the great blues artists said. It’s a long, long, long hard journey and it’s still a scuffle even after that. But at least you’re doing what you want to do. Every now and then you poke one in there. I’ve been very fortunate the last couple of records. I had Grammy nominations – 10 W. C. Handy nominations. I finally won one Handy last year and Amanda wrote the song!!! (Laughter) If guys like me keep pushing at that kind of stuff, people of importance are going to take notice. The Ray Charles movie doesn’t hurt – and he (Jamie Foxx) did a great job with that. I didn’t like what he did at the Grammy Awards. I just saw a little snippet of it but, no, not that. That’s a circus. I don’t know – I don’t want to go any farther on that. Ralph Stanley winning the Grammy when I was up two years ago – things like that gradually people are starting to come around maybe a little bit to more musical things, more Americana. Listen, Rock music is part of Americana, too. I’m not saying get rid of Rock music. I’m not saying get rid of all the stuff that I can’t stand, because there is room for everybody. Doug D: Make a little room KW: In my mind, you can’t even tell what’s good if it is all good. There’s got to be some crap, too!!! We had Pat Boone, you know what I mean. MT: You didn’t have to remind us, though !! KW: Thank you – I’m sorry. But in our day the scale was balanced. We also had Curtis Mayfield. We also had Ike & Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin. We also had the Impressions, you know. We also had Slim Harpo on the radio !!! I think the scale was way unbalanced in the favor of right (music) as opposed to whatever that other stuff is – Pop, bubblegum – whatever you want to call it. Now I think they attach way too much importance to it. And it’s all about corporate money only. Only !!! It has nothing to do with music. These kids can go out there and sing their asses off forever but this ain’t about them. It ain’t about them at all. It’s about whatever young people are getting told to listen to. Now there’s this slight rebellion against that. But the thing is, most young kids don’t have anything to base an opinion on because they haven’t heard anything good, ever, in their lives!! (laughter) MT: We are working on that – Blues in the Schools. KW: BITS – that helps. And believe me, that helps. My kids – they know Little Walter outtakes, you know what I mean. They get exposed to George Jones. They get exposed to the most unbelievable array of music between their father, their mother and me that it is bound to rub off on them. When you have a whole generation of kids that haven’t even heard a real drum kit – (laughter) . MT: Speaking of instruments, you mentioned some guitar players earlier. What happened to the harp players? KW: I don’t know. There’s some of the guys that I like. I dig Rick Estrin (Little Charlie & the Nite Cats). I dig Sugar Ray ( Norcia) up there on the East coast. I like Jerry Portnoy. MT: How about Mark Hummel, Gary Smith – some of the other guys – you’re all kind of the same generation. DD: Steve Mariner. KW: Steve Mariner is one kid that possibly – he’s very young and he’s really into it. He’s up in Ottawa, Canada, which is not exactly Blues heaven. It’s a matter of him finding his time, finding a thing. You have to be nuts to play a harmonica in the first place. Why? I remember riding in a cab in New York a long time ago and I was going to a show. The cabdriver asked me what I played and I said harmonica – he went Ohhh. From then on I said I was a singer. (Laughter) Anything but a harmonica player !! I think more importantly you really got to look for a guy that can go up there, calling off a set, front a band. That’s difficult to find. It doesn’t matter what you play. I know a lot of harmonica players from my generation just decided that weren’t going to learn how to sing. Who wants that ? No one wants just a harmonica player except Muddy Waters. All of his harmonica players were unbelievably great singers. It’s a real art to go on stage and call off a night just winging it – with no rehearsal like tonight – none! DD: We had rehearsed some of your tunes you didn’t call any of them ! KW: Yeah, I didn’t call any of them. I was too scared! If I call up a song, any blues song – the guys should know how that song goes. You should have an idea, maybe not exact, but you should know. If somebody called off a Tommy McClennan song to me, I might not know it. If you call off a Chicago blues song or a B.B. King song or any of that stuff, I’ll be able to jump right in and you don’t have to tell me shit. It’s just one of those things that you’re supposed to know. But as far as guys going on stage leading a band, he (Doug Deming) is getting a good handle on it. But it’s rare, it’s so rare. You get up there and you have to know what you are going to do. You’ve got to be really quick and you have to have a feel for what that audience is going to like. Plus you have to be able to go to the strengths of the people you are playing with. You have to figure out their strengths and weaknesses immediately. Then you’ve got to go to their strengths and try to do a lot of variations on their strengths to make it an interesting show for the people. It’s an art that has been lost, calling off a set. I do it with the T-Birds too – of course, we always have “Tuff Enuff”. I try to get out of that one! (Laughter) MT: How many times do you think you’ve played that song? KW: Not enough ! Because I know there is a big car commercial around the corner!! One of those guys is going to be out there listening. DD: That is something that always impressed me – watching you lead a band, whether I’m standing next to you or from the audience, especially on a big stage. I always would think if you’re at a big festival and playing in front of lots of people, the first thing I think of is setlist, because I don’t want to balk. But I watch you do it and I know you’re not working a setlist. You’re watching the crowd. You’re ready with the tune and setting the perfect tempo while the previous tune is ending. That’s something I learned and really make note of when I watch you work. KW: I’m calling it off on the outro of the song before. There are guys that have played with you long enough that they know all of the little signals that you are going to do. It’s an art to do it. You have to know a lot of material. And I know the first verses to many, many songs. If I have to make it up after that, what the hell! MT : The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the experience of producing the Hi-Fi Baby cd with Greg (“Fingers” Taylor, harp player and vocalist) and Doug. KW: It was great. It was simple and easy, very easy. It’s a lot easier when it’s not yourself. I don’t know why that is. Greg was sick – he had a cold all during that. We were thinking that we were going to have to overdub every vocal. But after we listened to it, we went, no, we don’t have to do that. The thing is you have to know when to quit. I’m not sure I know when to stop real well. DD: That’s the big role of the producer – when to say enough is enough. KW: I have to say Amanda really helps me out on these things. She is a really good ear to have because she is so well versed on the music. When you are in there laboring, listening over and over again, bringing in someone who is well versed that can say “ No, no – you already had it!” Luckily we keep everything. That is the only smart thing I did – I kept everything that went on tape. Then we went – there it was. With Greg, we didn’t even have to do that. We mixed the disc in a day. We mastered it – didn’t take it mastering but used the finalizer on everything. Because I hate mastering engineers. I despise them. I’m dealing with that right now. I can’t afford the God of Mastering, who is Bob Ludwig, although there are a couple of other guys, too. Now I am going to the son of God, the Jesus of mastering. We’ll see what he does. One thing I can’t stand – I do not want some motherfucker playing me like I’m his Stradivarius. He’s not qualified. On the technical end of music, all the old guys are so great because they were exposed to all of the cool shit. If you are a cabdriver in London, you have a book that you study. You can not set foot in a taxicab until you know every nook and cranny of the city of London, which is a tall order. Now if you are any kind of recording engineer, you have to love every kind of music – or else don’t do every kind of music. Don’t come to me and tell me, just like the musicians, that you can handle what I do if you haven’t done your homework. You can’t go in and handle a band without some knowledge, unless you are coached. And who wants to do that? I’ve had to do it on every record. I’ve had good results but I had to sit there, argue with them, ride their ass and make sure that they aren’t going to try and fool me. You can’t do that! What do you mean I can’t do that? Listen to this. Let me play this Little Walter record for you. Do you hear that Echoplex just going berserk!! But you can’t do that on a digital! You can’t cut it digitally because it just won’t take. On a project like Hi-Fi Baby, you aren’t looking over your shoulder at anyone, everyone is trusting you to deliver the sound. It’s not rocket science. For one thing you have to have guys that can play. For another thing you just have to know how to place a microphone to get the correct ambient sound. You use the right mics – something old!! (Laughter) or something that sounds old. Sampling is the biggest thing in the music industry today. These old guys are making a fortune because they went in there and told the guys sampling, you aren’t going to do that. You aren’t taking my music and not giving me any money! You’re not taking James Brown’s scream, you’re not taking Junior Parker’s Wind it Up, Baby – remember that – Mitsubishi ? Junior Parker’s estate – well, not his estate but the asshole that bought the rights to the music want to be paid. It just goes to show you – these guys can’t do it without us. They (samplers) don’t have the goods. They had to dig back in the archives and get stuff that’s worth a shit. There are exceptions of course in modern music. I’d be hard pressed to name one. The rest of the people are just pulling the wool over the public’s eyes. And the public is bending over and loving it. But it’s not the fault of the public. They’ve been ripped off since 1972 and they don’t know any better. Now I’ll tell you one good thing – satellite radio – because when you buy the package you get everything. They need the good part of Blues music, which is probably going to be at least ¾ old music and then sift whatever is good out of what people are doing now. Then you have old guys that can still play releasing new records and young guys who are at least somewhat living up to the standard. But the satellite channels are obligated to play everything new. That’s just the way it is. The sad part is the people at satellite radio have their hands tied. What they need is me and Amanda doing our own show on XM radio and really play the shit for everybody. DD: It’s weird though – because years ago you had a choice. Now you have to buy a choice. At least it’s available. KW: That’s ok. It’s not expensive and it’s way worth it because you get all the ballgames, too. I do need it because they’re the future. They don’t know how bad they need me. People hear what I’m saying tonight and they are going to think – what a ego-maniac this motherfucker is! But all I am is very, very intense about keeping the standard high in this music. I’m trying, whether by me or somebody else doing it right, expose people to the great vibe that I got when I heard Muddy Waters or B.B. King play. That got me into this music. I can imagine it growing like wildfire, especially if black people start playing it again. Sometimes I feel like I’m the one to keep the music alive until black people pick it up again. And then they’ll forget about me completely. What they don’t realize is that I am an equal opportunity destroyer. I don’t care what color you are - I will throw down on your ass! I don’t care what people think. I’m too old to give a fuck. Sure I want to have hit records. So why would I want to piss people off? It could be the greatest thing in your life – being exposed to B.B. King on RPM records – being exposed to Otis Rush and Magic Sam on Cobra Records – being exposed to Jimmy Rogers doing “You’re the One”. There is so much of it, who needs me even? But the people want to hear someone – I mean, I’ve always said those guys wrote the book – but that doesn’t mean I can’t write my own page in it. Every time I pick up my instrument it is modern, it’s now. I’m not painting by the numbers. I’m winging it. It’s beautiful like no jazz musician could ever even do because it has such balls. The only guy who, to me, in Jazz - the guy who really crossed that barrier and bridged the gap was Illinois Jacquet. Coleman Hawkins did too but not like Jacquet. Jacquet was the guy that took it and made it filthy. That “Black Velvet” from the late ‘40s – wow!! I’m not really that well versed in Jazz but I don’t know of any other saxophone player like Jacquet. MT: Sonny Criss did some great stuff early in his career. KW: Look at a guy like Hank Crawford, David “Fathead” Newman and King Curtis – they were a later generation and they were more R&B. Jacquet – mind-boggling !!! MT: Thank you for taking the time to do this interview. KW: You’re welcome and thanks to everyone for listening to the Blues. |
